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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 9:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

You need to go back and listen Pat. Preferences aside, 4.5 hours of Wall of Sound and unparalled experimentation vs. 1.5 hours of the Heroin years? Half hour Dark Stars going into even MORE epic music like Morning Dew vs. Don't Need Love and Gimme Some Lovin? I don't get it.

No offense, I like something from ALL era's and we all have our preferences and there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't see how you can deny their greatest musical peaks, ALL of which, with the exception of 87-91, occurred BEFORE the time frame you listed.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Oct 31, 2006 9:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

With you Johnny. 72, 73, 74, 76, 77 all hands down musically superior to anything after.

The peak of the writing IMO was with Wake of the Flood, still some ching-ching for Mars, Terrapin and Allah, but it's hard to argue against Weather Report, Eyes, Sunshine and Stella as the core in any setlist.

Europe 72 and Spring 77 runs would never be duplicated for hotter than hot play, and even poor Donna found her voice on that spring run. Once the band played themselves out of ballrooms, halls and theatres, it all changed. Even the drug of choice.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Value judgments, value judgments... How is acid any better than coke?

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Oct 31, 2006 12:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Here are but a few things that aren't subjective. Out of tune instruments, off key vocals, dragging tempos, forgotten lyrics, poor acoustics, carpal tunnel syndrome, diabetes, nicotine addiction, heroin addiction, the ravages of old age and disco. You can pick your own nose, and you can pick your own era, but you can't pick mine. (With apologies to good ol' mom.)

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 1:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

None of these apparently objective criteria are unique to any specific period (or band for that matter). Do you really thing that they were better singers and their instruments were more in tune when they were a bar band?

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Oct 31, 2006 2:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I knew it would come to this. Let me make it official. Pat Kelley says that the band was at it's greatest from 1978-1995 and I, for one, have been convinced by his persuasive arguments. All Hail.

This post was modified by Earl B. Powell on 2006-10-31 22:44:58

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Poster: mcglone Date: Oct 31, 2006 2:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

it's HIS opinion and i respect it.

This post was modified by mcglone on 2006-10-31 22:31:37

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 2:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

That aint cool Earl. I was born in 1970 so was in Diapers for many a good show. Does that mean I don't know anything? I love a lot of music that was made before I was Born ( Miles Davis for example ), does that mean I'm not allowed to like or listen to it? Isn't there anything you like that was created before you were born? How about paintings?

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Oct 31, 2006 2:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Johnny: My apologies, and the offending post has been modified for your viewing pleasure. Your absolutely right, everybody has there own opinion, and whether it's valid or not doesn't matter as long as they feel good about themselves. Me bad. I shouldn't be a hater.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 3:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Right on. I can understand your ire though. 72-77 Dead = a noodling bar band? And 79-95 equals greatness because they were " polished"? Hard for me to swallow too.

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Poster: ducats Date: Oct 31, 2006 3:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I think most would agree it was a 60's - early 70's thing.

Any help on the 60's show that Pig Pen (I think Avalon + Midnight Hour) says to Jerry, "that's it - play your guitar".

Jerry dug him and I think alot of the year stuff I just read through has to do with the boys after pen.

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Poster: ducats Date: Oct 31, 2006 3:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I think most would agree it was a 60's - early 70's thing.

Any help on the 60's show that Pig Pen (I think Avalon + Midnight Hour) says to Jerry, "that's it - play your guitar".

Jerry dug him and I think alot of the year stuff I just read through has to do with the boys after pen.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Because Coke makes you fiend, is considerably more expensive, tends to lead to bad social behavior whereas good quality acid does none of those things and actually often expands a persons mind instead of turning them into a d*ck. Now if one PREFERS Coke then that is their opinion and personal preference just as yours is that everything before 78 is musically inferior : P

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

haha- very good. I can officially say that I'll never again do coke or acid. I'm just fiesty because I have very little to do today in my office except a 3 oclock phone call.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Then there are those who prefer Pepsi. Look--it's all subjective. What makes this fun is that there are those who deeply enjoy different periods of an evolving entity's life cycle--some who enjoy the whole shebang. I suspect that many of us are biased by age and exposure. The Dead were THE soundtrack to the sixties/early seventies--the acid times. This is my Dead--1967-1972, maybe 1973. Watching a group play alters one's perspective, and watching a supernova begin to explode--something not to be missed. Imagine seeing, as I did, the original five piece group in a basement with maybe 100 people jammed into the place. Intimate and loud. And the early Dark Stars were what worked for us.

Still, I doubt they would have lasted thirty years if they had nothing left to say . . . .

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 12:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I prefer Pepsi. I never saw them those years, too young, but I still think they're the best years. I think one could argue that people tend to favor the years they saw the band. Those years for me were primarily 89-91 which I think the recordings justify what I felt at the time - those years were HOT. Having said that, I have ALLWAYS thought 72-77 ( esp 72-74 ) were the band at their peak.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Oct 31, 2006 12:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Well, I can only speak for myself, and I saw the bulk of my shows between '84 and '90...First was '79, but still being pretty young didn't see as many shows '79 to '84 as I did after '84...

BUT I listen to and covet the '72-'77 shows the most, 1977 being my all time favorite.

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Poster: mcglone Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

you tell me...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd74-05-19.sbd.clugston.6957.sbeok.shnf

http://www.archive.org/details.php?identifier=gd85-08-24.sbd.vernon.13991.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

you can explore the music deeper on acid than coke.play off the colors of the notes and taste the chords,on coke your just rushing for your next fix...just my humble thoughts..i love all their years.

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Poster: Dhamma1 Date: Oct 31, 2006 3:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

"How is acid any beter than coke?"

Hmm... that reminds me of a remark attributed to Krishnamurti, when someone asked why he picked a sharp rock out of a trail they were walking: if you can seriously ask the question, then you probably wouldn't understand the answer. ;-)

Coke made me feel good temporarily. Acid deconstructed my universe and left me forever altered, for the better.

Now I grovel in apology and contrition for seeming condescending.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Oct 31, 2006 4:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

It's all good. Though 1965 still stands tallest.

Now, here's one of the links re: the release.

http://spincds.com/archives.asp?id=6443

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Poster: patkelley Date: Oct 31, 2006 9:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

See, I disagree completely with the "unparalleled experimentation" idea. Aside from the really weird 60s stuff, their most experimental stuff happened with the onset of better technology etc. Keep in mind that length doesnt equal quality. Most 70s jams are so much noodling. Your whole post is a little contradictory (stressing the importance of subjectivity in enjoyment while simultaneously definitively labelling one era as the objective best), but that's OK. There are no real rules here. Now, did you really think I had Gimme Some Lovin in mind when I wrote my post??

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 31, 2006 11:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

I don't think I contradicted anything. I firmly beleive it is obvious that 72-77 is the band at their best. That doesn't mean I ONLY listen to those years or ONLY like those years. To me it's like people saying Dylan is at his best NOW when it has to obvious his most prolific days are behind him.Doesn't mean you shouldn't like his new stuff, maybe a person could even PREFER it.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Oct 31, 2006 10:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: rhino release

Pat,

I agree that w/the advent of new tech. and such, they tried to experiment w/diff. sounds (midis, reverb, space-related bells &whistles, etc.) and maybe they even tried to expand on some songs that had more limited jams in the 70's (compare any '77 Cassidy to an '81 or '84 or '91 and that bears out--the song was shorter and less daring in its jamming in the '70's)...

BUT I think the point is that as much as they tried to branch out in the post-Keith years there was (IMO) an almost undeniable drop-off in their execution, and abilities.

Jerry sure never sounded as good vocally in the '80's as he did in the 70's...the jamming was actually more focused (listen to a '73 Here Comes Sunshine or the Eyes'StrongerThanDirt jams or Let it Grow and it's jazzier, more like what a well-trained musician would play)...

They lost the ease and flow and sheer grooviness of a year like '77 for a more isolated approach in the 80's--each player more into his "own thing" during a song, which is why a lot of the problems they had in the 80's were a kind of choppiness to the playing...they did not sound as in synch w/each other and as a result you'd get a lot of uneven shows...some sparks of brilliance but a lot of plodding fodder in between marked by off-notes, croaky vocals, forgotten lyrics, and a sound that often resulted in what John Stewart once said was "6 guys playing a completely different song all at the same time."

Look, it IS all subjective ultimately, and I know you can point to numerous 80's shows that are legendary and deservedly so--10-12-84 right off the top of my head) but I would urge you to go back and listen to as many '77 shows, 72 and '73 and even some '74 shows and really judge the quality of the execution of their playing as opposed to a show from '85 or '87, or '88, ('89 was a comeback of sorts) and see if your opinion doesn't change slightly.

If not, hey, that's what makes horse races.

GC

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